Comments on: Regional newspapers do not produce good journalists…

By: Ray Abell

Ray Abell — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:22:32 +0000

Let’s get one thing straight: there are some excellent journalists in the regions, and some god awful journalists on the nationals – and, of course, vice versa. In fact, you don’t even have to be a journalist to get yourself a column on some nationals. Look at Anne Widdicombe. There are many more.
In the old days, it was considered more or less essential to get provincial training before joining a national. This was because the national press had a genuine national mindset.
Nowadays, the nationals are basically London papers with very thin distribution in the regions. It’s interesting to note that one regional daily outsells all the nationals combined on its own patch and continues to dominate its market, even in these straitened times. Hence, the regional connection is not considered so important on the nationals anymore. If you’re focused on Posh Beckham and Peaches Geldof, or think Jonathan Ross is a national luminary, you’re unlikely to want proper stories, are you? It is, incidentally, one of the many reasons that national circulations are in free fall.
When I was working on a respected daily abroad, we rarely if ever took Fleet Street applicants because they were always considered less productive. The people we wanted were from big regional dailies. They were better professionals with a superior work ethic.
Papers like The Guardian – a terrible paper, in my opinion – float in aspic because they never have to turn a profit. However, its elitist attitudes were not always so evident. If you go back far enough, when the paper still kept touch with its northern roots, many of its journalists were solid operators trained on provincial weeklies and dailies. It was a much better paper in those days and commanded genuine respect.
A final point: it is a myth to suggest that those who went to national titles from the regions were the best of the bunch. They weren’t. Those who were destined for senior rank on the regionals were simply not interested in Fleet Street.

By: richard mosse

richard mosse — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:01:19 +0000

The Sun – into news?

Regional newsapapers and journalists have greater respect and integrity; trying to report the truth in more than 4 lines of babyish trash.
I can not see that a journalist trained at a tabloid would be better equiped to work on a proper national, his hard spent years turning his/her journalistic head to mush. ( I presume the desk editor in question is from a reputable paper, I can see no relevance in his contention otherwise!

By: Paul Linford

Paul Linford — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:51:22 +0000

I do think it largely depends on the paper, and how far they value basic reporting skills as opposed to what might be described as “fine writing.” I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I would hazard a guess that the papers that are more into “news” such as the Sun, Mail and Telegraph are far more likely to recruit from the regionals than papers such as the Guardian that are more into “writing.”

By: pr-media-blog.co.uk » Blog Archive » Media Future#2 - Why Do Regional Journalists Not Make It To Nationals?

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:24:15 +0000

[...] According to a national newspaper editor ….”We no longer see the regional newspapers as a source for staff. We find that training graduates ourselves produces better journalists.” (Hat tip Joanna Geary) [...]

By: Linda

Linda — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:00:09 +0000

Really interesting – and comments.

I’d say that what this national newspaper man had to say is a real shame, having not worked in a regional newsroom for nearly 10 years, I can’t say that’s he’s right or wrong, but I have to say, I suspect his experience is not typical – surely a local reporter battling the competition on the big stories of the day is still going to be well-palced to make the move?

Like Paul and Sid, I trained during a time when working on a regional (and especially one here in the Midlands) opened doors in London – when we trained with the Express & Star, we were told that all you needed to get shifts in London was to say you worked there – and there still are enough senior staffers at the nationals or even in the higher echelons of the editorial staff whose experience bears this out.

I remember a close friend (long since quit journalism for PR) getting three months at the NoTW after being told at interview she had worked at some good papers – she thought they meant the E&S and Shropshire Star, but the editor who interviewed her (long since quit for PR:)) said he meant the Worcs Evening News too.

Being a “good” reporter or journalist seems to mean so many things to so many different people. For me, the bit that possibly gets overlooked and is definitely made to prosper on a regional title (still, surely?) is a strong work ethic, people skills also have to be ‘up there’ for those who have trained or spent time on the regionals.

Time spent on a regional Sunday – where all stories had to be off diary has definitely helped me sell stuff in to the nationals. Time spent on regional dailies – and covering the amount of ground you have to in a given time – are all solid support for working on a national paper.

Even as budgets and readerships are shrinking I still cling on to a belief that the best regional reporters can come up with the goods – during my time – though of course that was a while ago – there was a real sense of competition between rival papers and between colleagues – and that spurred people on to the nationals where they can swim rather than sink as a staffer.

From a freelance point of view, speaking from my own experience, I did have a bit of an inferiority complex, thinking it would be hard to ‘crack’ the nationals but it has been okay. Of course being freelance is a million miles from being staff. I hope that regional reporters can still hack it on the nationals, they can’t all be staffed by nepotism, surely?

There’s a related piece here:
http://www.freelancewritingtips.com/2007/05/so_you_think_li.html

All best.

By: Charles

Charles — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:11:44 +0000

Funny that nobody’s mentioned trade press – which has produced lots of specialists and, for that matter, generalists. I know of five people (myself included) who came from a computing trade paper to be in nationals or national TV (does Newsnight count?).

Trade papers give a better chance to do investigations at times – and you come to the notice of the nationals because you know more than they do, and they can’t (generally) one-up you quickly.

By: links for 2008-07-23 by andydickinson.net

links for 2008-07-23 by andydickinson.net — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:30:48 +0000

[...] Regional newspapers do not produce good journalists… « Joanna Geary “or at least that was the opinion of one desk editor from a national newspaper that I met during my London trip.” (tags: regional newspaper journalism) [...]

By: Alison Gow

Alison Gow — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:26:46 +0000

I’ve worked in the regional press for nearly 20 years and have never regretted that decision.
I’d be interested to know what timescale your exec was thinking off when he said standards had fallen. The Gloucester Citizen, for example, ran rings around the nationals (broadsheet and tabloid) when it came to covering Fred and Rose West – we had exclusives they were scrambling after every single day. More recently the Ipswich Star produced consistently excellent, award-winning, copy on the murder of five prostitutes. As I remember, the lead journalist on that story was signed up by a national newspaper in record-time.
The training (both academic and on-the-job) I received from my first weekly paper was second-to-none. Every daily newspaper I have worked for has invested in my development; could a national newspaper journalist say the same? I wonder…

By: David Higgerson

David Higgerson — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:16:20 +0000

Great to see Neil’s post above. There are many, many journalists who never want to work on “Fleet Street” and are perfectly happy with careers in the regional press. I’m one of those.

For people who do want to go onto a national, it’s certainly an ordeal. I know about a dozen journalists who went to try their hand on nationals over the last two or three years. To do this, they had to first do shifts while working full-time in their existing jobs, or, if they got really lucky, they landed a six-month contract – quite different to the secure contracts most regional journalists have.

Yet all of those 12 – all from regional newspapers – have now landed longer-term contracts. All came from regional newspapers. One, Kate Mansey of the Sunday Mirror, was named the UKPG young journalist of the year. Perhaps it is easier to create a journalist of your liking from a graduate who hasn’t been exposed to other newsrooms, but surely that can’t outweigh several years experience?

In my time on newsdesks around the North, I’ve found that, generally, the best regional daily journalists have worked previously on weeklies. They learn how to build contacts, look at a story from all sides and so on. I suspect many national desk heads feel the same about staff from regional dailies.

Andy D is right, there is an old boy’s network to an extent, but none of the journalists I know benefitted from it. I still believe there is no training ground quite like regional newspapers – and as newsrooms become truly multimedia, I suspect that training ground will become even more attractive to nationals looking for new staff and therefore even more beneficial to the journalists involved.

PS – Great headline to get people hooked in Jo!

By: Paul Bradshaw

Paul Bradshaw — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:31:46 +0000

This doesn’t surprise me. People tend to hire in their own image: regional editors go on about NCTJ; national editors sneer at a media degree and warm up at PPE (politics, philosophy and economics – an Oxbridge staple). I’m caricaturing, but…
What’s most worrying about this is that in an already London-centric media you will then have even less writers with experience of or an interest in ‘the regions’. Journalists will begin their trade in London, get their training there (homogenising the staff even further), and have even less insight or contacts for that.
Add to this the fact that the only people who can afford to work in London on a journo’s wage are those who either have a family affluent enough to support them, or who come from the region anyway, and you get even more homogenisation.
And that’s one very big reason why people outside the metropolis don’t buy the nationals – the Independent, I seem to remember, has an incredibly low percentage of its sales outside the capital.